Just to reinforce what Kurt said, when Scalextric started putting faster motors in their newer F1 cars many of us were upset because we couldn't race them
with our existing Scaley F1 cars. Same could be said for the later NINCO classics with the NC-2 motors instead of the original NC-1s. Fact is, most of us
would prefer that all manufacturers produce cars that looked great and had equal speed potential so that they could be raced against one another without
serious modification.
New Review...NSR Ford MK IV
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 Zoom Beedo |
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Posts: 15 (07/17/08 02:23 PM) |
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Da Vols |
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Posts: 4705 (07/17/08 05:19 PM) HRW Moderator |
Kurt - May I ask since you believe allowing slot cars like this NSR endangers the production of scale accurate ones in the future...isn't your intended
purchase of one making that slippery slope just that much more slippery???
Da Vols - Bruce & Harriet & Kali
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jethro.fastlaneslotcar... |
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Posts: 11 (07/17/08 06:32 PM) |
I'll add here to the fray of observation is last night's race results. The Foroslot was put up against the best fair-class contender and it took
second place to a scale accurate body. The body is not the issue here in design of what we can call "darn near scale accurate thingies".
"thingies" is a plain obvious misnomer on this producer. I race with thingies.......these are not "thingies". They are nano-meter
fraction-of-a-traction scale accurate HQ racing products - and are without issue the best out of the box. Next time it is reviewed, I hope those that do will
string at least two non-interrupted sentences about its performance....rather than emphasizing the anal retentive dimensional accuracy. These cars ROCK!!!!
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Chaparral 2D |
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Posts: 1020 (07/17/08 09:37 PM) Home Racing Guru! |
Thank you, Jethro. Well put.
Bob |
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lotus33 |
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Posts: 217 (07/17/08 10:58 PM) Home Racing Forum Veteran |
There's nothing "anal retentive" about wanting accurate scale dimensions in a slot car. There are no perfect 1/32 scale slot cars. They all
have their scale inaccuracies, it's just that most have less inaccuracies than others. Like I said before, I am not a scale snob. I LOVE Vanquish and
Racer cars. They are very highly detailed, excellent running and very fun cars to drive and are quite accurate for their scale. For you "thingie"
racers, please, don't take this the wrong way, but if you race "thingies", you are used to running silly fast cars that are not scaled to
anything so the NSR cars wouldn't bother you as much as it would bother others. The NSR cars were designed around a chassis built for racing, the body had
to be widened and stretched to fit the chassis, thus the body inaccuracies, and that's fine. I don't mind paying $100.00 or more for a slot car (I
have 3 Racers and have 3 more I will get soon), but, as I also said before, I just think for the money, they could be a little more realistic with their
details for those of us who like that sort of thing.
Tom 
I lost a lap, can I have one of yours?
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ElSecundo |
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Posts: 6231 (07/18/08 08:37 AM) Home Racing Guru! |
lotus33 wrote: Exactly!
And Bruce, buying one as opposed to seven isn't exactly 'slippery slope'. As a direct result of sub-par attention to detail (unlike other products in this scale), NSR sees fewer sales from me. I'm also a fan of Vanquish and Racer. There is a big difference between 'not getting every last detail right' and 'sacrificing detail and accuracy for speed'. It's a philosophical difference, and the NSR philosophy isn't the kind that I promote. The cars go fast enough already -- there's no reason to sacrifice a beautiful car's details to make the cars go faster. Fly missed some major details on their line of Fly Classics, but they were trying to get things right, and not sacrificing details to make the cars faster. I like their philosophy, even if their execution isn't perfect. This coming from an arguably successful racer -- in this scale, speed isn't the be-all-end-all. I do REALLY enjoy a quality drive, though, and NSR cars deliver that. The feel of a great driving car is fantastic, and NSR cars have that fantastic driving feel. It doesn't have to be fast drive, though -- just a quality drive. Now excuse me, I have to go install a NSR Shark motor in my NINCO Porsche 356... Woo hoo, let's make them all go FASTER  Faster is better, right?
I'll tell ya...fellas......you're gonna want more cowbell!
Rock legend Bruce Dickinson |
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John Schoen |
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Posts: 26 (07/19/08 06:58 AM) |
NSR are the initials for Noviello Slot Racing, Noviello Scale Modelling does
not exist as far as I know.
 If you want a scale model with minute
detailing you'll have to look elsewhere.
ElSecundo wrote: Funny that you should mention the Ninco 356, the rear track of that car is 7 mm too wide. I bet they didn't do that to make it slower and still
everybody loves it. It could be the reason why I like mine too. |
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ElSecundo |
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Posts: 6234 (07/19/08 12:17 PM) Home Racing Guru! |
John Schoen wrote: Yes, the 356 is clearly all about speed, right down to its blistering NC-1 motor. Would this car be better if it had the NSR Shark in it? For those of you who land on the NSR side of this, is there ever a time for you when a car is made better by being slower? Or is more speed an improvement 100% of the time? I'm convinced that NSR would still have a very fast, high quality car if they did the details right. It might slow the car down a tick, but is an average speed of 20.1 feet per second so much better than an average speed of 20.0 feet per second, that it's worth screwing up the looks of the car?
I'll tell ya...fellas......you're gonna want more cowbell!
Rock legend Bruce Dickinson |
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John Schoen |
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Posts: 27 (07/20/08 09:05 AM) |
It depends on what the purpose of the car is. This car was built to win the Italian Classic championship, so detailing is a secondary concern. The Italian
rules are the reason why it is 60 mm wide and equipped with a 20k Shark. If NSR had just wanted to make the fastest classic they could have fitted a faster
motor because the car is undoubtedly able to handle more power. The Italian Classic cup is a spec motor series and the only motor that is allowed is the Shark
20k.
Speed is not everything, you only have to drive as slowly as needed to stay ahead of the rest. I have won some races with cars that were so much faster than the rest that it was no fun anymore, I have slowed them down just to keep it interesting. What I meant to say with my remark about the 356 is that it was widened quite a lot to improve performance. It is not about all out speed, but about handling. It is fun to drive as it is now, it would probably become even tippier if the scale was correct. No doubt that there are people who would rather have it closer to scale, but there seem to be more people who like it just the way it is. 
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Da Vols |
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Posts: 4713 (07/20/08 11:09 AM) HRW Moderator |
Perhaps this entire post should be "copied" for when NSR releases the stablemate so all that would be needed is to substiture Porsche 917 for Ford
Mark IV...
Though there is a more detailed and (supposedly) more accurate version from Le Mans Miniatures at a hefty price - hopefully the MRRC version won't be sucked into the same black hole that their Cheetah exists in as to releasing it.
Da Vols - Bruce & Harriet & Kali
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bigmike312 |
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Posts: 1110 (07/20/08 12:51 PM) Home Racing Guru! |
ElSecundo wrote:Faster is better, right? As far as I'm concerned it is. I could care less how scale accurate a car is as long as it handles well and is fast. That's what these cars are built for not to be scale model shelf queens. Big Mike Never argue with a fool, they'll drag you down to their level then beat you with experience. |
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HomeRacingWorld |
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Posts: 11281 (07/20/08 01:10 PM) The Lazy Administrator |
Thats what is great about our hobby..do it the way you want to. Interesting thread to say the least...good stuff.
"They Didn't Say You Couldn't" - Smokey Yunick
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ElSecundo |
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Posts: 6236 (07/20/08 01:15 PM) Home Racing Guru! |
bigmike312 wrote: So why bother spending all the money on 1:32 cars with all the detail? You can get all the speed you could possibly want in 1:24 and HO -- and not throw your money away on all this unnecessary detail. Is it because the way the cars look is important to you, and that's why you stay in 1:32?
I'll tell ya...fellas......you're gonna want more cowbell!
Rock legend Bruce Dickinson |
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lightning427 |
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Posts: 72 (07/20/08 04:00 PM) |
Keep the thingies on 1/24 scale tracks.
Out of a job yet? Keep buying foreign
When you have a choice buy USA its not just low skilled jobs leaving. |
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fangio |
into the fray | ||
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Posts: 1 (07/20/08 05:22 PM) |
my calipers have a hard time catching up to this car while it's racing. unless, of course it's sitting on a shelf. we are having too much fun with
this car. isn't that what a toy car supposed to do?
can not be locked into the true 1/32 scale world and subjectively give passes to certain manufacturers (ie, fly, ninco ,...). you lose your own argument. scale is scale. let the market determine what the folks want (and please NSR, We/I want more). maybe they don't "measure up" to some, but they sure "feel" right. |
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jethro.fastlaneslotcar... |
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Posts: 12 (07/20/08 05:30 PM) |
ElSecundo wrote:Yep, I would bet that it would run smoother, quieter and be more responsive to trigger. |
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ElSecundo |
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Posts: 6237 (07/20/08 06:11 PM) Home Racing Guru! |
fangio wrote: Don't own any calipers -- don't really care about the measurements, but I do feel that the manufacturers need to make their best attempts to get
the car right. I can't tell by looking at the 356 that it isn't right. It looks right to me, and I wouldn't bother measuring it with calipers if
I had them.
It's also worth noting that at the time the 356 came out, it was a significant step forward in terms of 1:32 scale and detail. Is the Mk IV a step forward or backward in this area? It looks like an obvious step backward (forward for them, but backward for 1:32 on the whole).
I'll tell ya...fellas......you're gonna want more cowbell!
Rock legend Bruce Dickinson
Last Edited By: ElSecundo
07/20/08 06:23 PM.
Edited 1 times.
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jethro.fastlaneslotcar... |
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Posts: 13 (07/20/08 07:11 PM) |
Speed as an improvement due to different motors is valid as long as the class rules permit it. I can agree that faster speed is not the single measure of
quality among cars. Being a mechanical engineer that works in precision design/manufacturing environment probably causes me to rank the NSR drive train and
handling above small details of looks. But I understand those that have their own ranking systems for quality. I really don't think there is a
pre-defined ranking system in 1/32 that is to be imposed on all manufacturers. If I could choose the ranking, I'd say get the drive train and handling
right first - that's just me...well there are many more in that line of thinking or we wouldn't be discussing, eh?
Last Edited By: jethro
07/20/08 07:41 PM.
Edited 1 times.
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bigmike312 |
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Posts: 1112 (07/20/08 07:49 PM) Home Racing Guru! |
At this moment I don't own any slot cars since I just sold out all my stuff and when I was racing I didn't care about all the details, they don't
make a car faster.
My point is scale accuracy is not what everyone is hung up on. If you want scale accuracy that is fine but don't take someone or a manufacturer to task because they want fast, good handling cars and don't care about the scale accuracy. I thought these were being built to be race cars not scale models. I guess I was wrong. BTW Where can you buy HO cars for $10? They haven't been that cheap in years. Big Mike Never argue with a fool, they'll drag you down to their level then beat you with experience.
Last Edited By: bigmike312
07/20/08 08:56 PM.
Edited 2 times.
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bwaminispeed |
If I could choose the ranking, I'd say get the drive train and handling right first | ||
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Posts: 1027 (07/20/08 09:14 PM) BWA Wheels |
But, the whole point us scale types are saying, is, that it just isn't neccessary to distort a cars proportions to achieve this.
It is no harder to get the drive train and handling right in a car that has scale dimensions as it is in a distorted car. Why alianate half your potential market for perhaps a tenth of a second/lap,if that. I thought these were being built to be race cars not scale models. I guess I was wrong.Basicaly same answer as above. It just isn't neccessary to distort the bodies. Scale bodied cars can be just as racey. Plus, using that theory since you say they are not scale models anyway, why not just flatten them right down, put a big wing on the back and side dams/air control on the sides, and, you would have a pretty good race car. Oh, I forgot, they already did that, they're called Wing cars, which, are definately race cars and not scale cars, which, seems to be what you want from your statement.
BWA Slot Cars bwapenrose@hotmail.com
 
Quote:
Last Edited By: bwaminispeed
07/20/08 09:16 PM.
Edited 1 times.
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