New Review...NSR Ford MK IV

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jethro.fastlaneslotcar...		#41	[-]
Posts: 10 (07/13/08 06:40 AM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	In NSR's favor, the components and performance are top grade. A bit expensive, but price is not a fair issue when we consider the upgrades that we make to our competition cars, let alone the time it takes to bring them to these performance levels. I'd hate to see the negative feedback on scale deviations catch on to a general theme in the 1/32 slot car hobbyists. NSR is setting the standard with chassis design, motors, axles, bushings, and gearing. All the other 1/32 producers are fine as they are, too; all with weaknesses and strengths. Many of us know what these weaknesses and strengths are for each producer, and we don't really single them out for weaknesses. The niche for NSR is to offer the top end competition car out of the box, no accessories needed. And they have done that and there is no close competitor to that. NINCO sort of made the attempt with the Vortrom, prorace kits and Leyjun this year. At this point, nobody can touch NSR's niche. BTW, the Slot-it McLaren Fina body is almost a perfect fit to NSR 1223. So if your eyes can't handle the mold line deviation of Mosler/MkIV, try this one.
DogFish		#42	[-]
Posts: 416 (07/13/08 06:42 AM) Home Racing Guru! Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I have lots of both 1:32 and 1:24 (you forgot AutoArt Kurt), probably along the lines of a 10 or 20:1 ratio. I've ummm, lost count. And totally agree with the we want them as close to scale as possible crowd. Anyway, there is a market for thingies as well (Ostereo?). We'll see how their new 'thingy' formula works shortly I think. Personally I have so many and so many are being made that I've slowed down even more than I predicted a few months back. Allen
Da Vols		#43	[-]
Posts: 4691 (07/13/08 09:47 AM) HRW Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I wouldn't compare the 10 or so BRM 1:24 models at 150 dollars apiece to the thousands of models available in 1:32 scale. BRM is clearly the exception in 1:24, and for scale realism, 1:32 is effectively the only bastion of scale realism. Except for Carrera, there is no way to get scale RTR cars outside of 1:32. Going slightly off topic and into another post, but that states my reasoning that 1/32nd is so very dependent on manufactured cars and their rising prices possibly hurting this part of the hobby. As to 1/24th-25th scale - for those that don't mind building a car, there's tons of choices in this up-a-scale with all the kits available that are true to scale. Not to take anything away from BRM, but with a Tamiya or Revell kit, an H&R or Plafit or other chassis, one can build a car for far less than the BRM...especially if you like something else than a Porsche. 1/32nd is the "bastion" only for those that buy off the shelf...considering the room limitations many have for tracks, I'd hazard a strong guess that if companies started detailing out 1/43rd's there'd be a big swing to that scale. As to this "thingie" thing - to totally paraphrase the late Lloyd Bentsen - I knew thingies and sir, this NSR is no thingie. True that NSR massages their bodies, but it's done on purpose because they are built as racers around the rules allowed...period. If you want to call it a Fred Mark IV that's fine - those that think that way are not the market this car was built for anyways. An interesting side note, I think the NSR Mosler is far more "massaged" than this Ford, and it was not allowed to participate in the scale-conscious RAA when first released...a year later for some reason it's now okie-dokie...??? Da Vols - Bruce & Harriet & Kali
ElSecundo		#44	[-]
Posts: 6218 (07/13/08 12:12 PM) Home Racing Guru! Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Da Vols wrote: 1/32nd is the "bastion" only for those that buy off the shelf...considering the room limitations many have for tracks, I'd hazard a strong guess that if companies started detailing out 1/43rd's there'd be a big swing to that scale. As to this "thingie" thing - to totally paraphrase the late Lloyd Bentsen - I knew thingies and sir, this NSR is no thingie. True that NSR massages their bodies, but it's done on purpose because they are built as racers around the rules allowed...period. If you want to call it a Fred Mark IV that's fine - those that think that way are not the market this car was built for anyways. I completely agree that if 1:43 had this level of detail, that's where we'd be. The detail is what we're drawn to, and that's why slot racing is so strong today. The other aspect that has allowed slot car racing to make a comeback is that we CAN buy all these great cars off the shelf. There would have been no major comeback if kits were the only way to do this. jethro wrote: In NSR's favor, the components and performance are top grade. A bit expensive, but price is not a fair issue when we consider the upgrades that we make to our competition cars, let alone the time it takes to bring them to these performance levels. I'd hate to see the negative feedback on scale deviations catch on to a general theme in the 1/32 slot car hobbyists. NSR is setting the standard with chassis design, motors, axles, bushings, and gearing. All the other 1/32 producers are fine as they are, too; all with weaknesses and strengths. Many of us know what these weaknesses and strengths are for each producer, and we don't really single them out for weaknesses. Of course we single them out for weaknesses! How badly was Carrera beaten up for its sluggish motors, lack of detail, and its new guide? Ninco for its hop? R-M for its chassis and gearing? Fly for its reliability out of the box? These things have been hammered on relentlessly for years until we've seen improvements. And we've held each company accountable for their crap until they improve to an acceptable level. Expect people to hold NSR accountable for missing the boat on scale issues. But like any strengths and weaknesses, some people will find the weaknesses acceptable in light of their strengths. NSR clearly made improvements with this body compared to the Mosler, but it's still sub-par for 1:32. We can all bring sub-par performers to a high level of performance with tweaking. But most of us can't readily bring a car's detail or proportions up to snuff, and these are the bread and butter of 1:32. We have to demand better in this regard, just the way we demand a better guide from Carrera. And NSR will be rewarded if they improve. Sure, I'll buy one of these, and only one. If they'd done it right, I'd buy five or more -- and there are a lot of people across the hobby who see it that way. That translates into a lot more sales. I'll tell ya...fellas......you're gonna want more cowbell! Rock legend Bruce Dickinson
Weirdly	let the market dictate	#45	[-]
Posts: 118 (07/13/08 12:42 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	(the late) Vanquish had scale issues which caused the completely-anal-about-exactness-types to go berserk. Too bad because mine is one of the sweetest handling cars I own and looks totally scale with excellent details when racing against other Vanquish cars. Racing organizations are capable of disallowing certain body types that don't meet their criteria for scale realism so what do you say we let it go at that, and wish NSR all the success in the world for making a collosal effort at the mass production of cars built from quality components that racers enjoy. Hang-in-there people because someone, someday will release this body in exacting scale for you to enjoy. Stop Global Whining
Da Vols		#46	[-]
Posts: 4693 (07/13/08 01:46 PM) HRW Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I completely agree that if 1:43 had this level of detail, that's where we'd be. The detail is what we're drawn to, and that's why slot racing is so strong today. The other aspect that has allowed slot car racing to make a comeback is that we CAN buy all these great cars off the shelf. There would have been no major comeback if kits were the only way to do this. I dunno - HO racing has been going strong for all these years and it's definitely not the diecast quality that has kept those folks racing them...and I'll sit corrected, but I believe that sector of the hobby is also the biggest, at least in the USA. I do agree that the present day RTR's are the reason for the boon in this scale...however, I also believe the near total lack of model kits in this scale has caused the extreme dependency for off the shelf. I think if the same availability of kits as in 1/24th-25th existed this scale would grow even further. A look over at the "Oval" section shows how creative folks can and have become with the limited number of model kits available. While it's true we can raise the "hue & cry" about what we find "wrong" with cars being offered by the manufacturers, but other than Slot.It it pretty much falls on deaf ears. For example, folks have complained about Scalextric's lack of depth of their guide to no avail (though a deeper "Sport" guide is available for their latest quick braid change guide) - all forgetting the fact that there are many a folk still running on their Classic track that can't take any deeper guide. And staying with guides, I don't know what the folks at Carrera were thinking with their new one...the guide itself isn't a problem, but the housing is unnecessarily massive causing in some cases to be behind the axle which ain't the best thing for handling, but until they recoup the tooling for this system I wouldn't expect an overnight change. And of course we can go on and on... But if you expect NSR to build cars with proper detail and scale...wouldn't hold your breath unless the racing rules they are intended for are changed. Or in another way of putting it, given the rules that allow the NSR Mosler, would you opt for the Ninco version just because it's a more proper looking version? And finally, is there really a "perfect" slot car...??? Da Vols - Bruce & Harriet & Kali
Zoom Beedo		#47	[-]
Posts: 12 (07/13/08 07:36 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Da Vols wrote: Or in another way of putting it, given the rules that allow the NSR Mosler, would you opt for the Ninco version just because it's a more proper looking version? That's exactly what I did. I don't want NSR or any other manufacturer to assume that I care more about speed than scale accuracy, and I think buying the NSR version would send that wrong message. BTW, I agree with you that there would be a lot more 1/43 scale cars sold if they were more accurately depicted.
ElSecundo		#48	[-]
Posts: 6220 (07/14/08 07:37 AM) Home Racing Guru! Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Da Vols wrote: I dunno - HO racing has been going strong for all these years and it's definitely not the diecast quality that has kept those folks racing them...and I'll sit corrected, but I believe that sector of the hobby is also the biggest, at least in the USA. While it's true we can raise the "hue & cry" about what we find "wrong" with cars being offered by the manufacturers, but other than Slot.It it pretty much falls on deaf ears. For example, folks have complained about Scalextric's lack of depth of their guide to no avail But if you expect NSR to build cars with proper detail and scale...wouldn't hold your breath unless the racing rules they are intended for are changed. Or in another way of putting it, given the rules that allow the NSR Mosler, would you opt for the Ninco version just because it's a more proper looking version? And finally, is there really a "perfect" slot car...??? HO is strong because you can get a car for 10 bucks. 'Cheap' is the reason we see the Ford Focus as more popular than Ferraris. I know plenty of HO guys, and they also wish they could get the level of detail we're seeing in 1:32. Not true at all about things falling on deaf ears! Carrera has improved their motors, added a capacitor to their lighting circuit, and improved their tires and their gearing. Monogram has improved their gearing. SCX has made numerous improvements, too many to mention here. All of the companies have wheels that are more true today than they were three years ago -- ALL of them. Fly has far fewer reliability issues out of the box -- they've even improved the 917K, and now pre-grind the pinion to prevent rubbing on the tire. NINCO just improved their ProRace components so they fit properly under their fenders, and added a line of 3/32 axles, bushings and gears. Just because Scaley has been knuckleheaded about making changes, doesn't mean the other guys have. One thing that Scalextric did that people had been asking for was to add rubberized mirrors for less breakage. Would I opt for the NINCO version? In a heartbeat. I have six NINCO Moslers, one NSR. If NSR gave it some thought, they'd realize that they could sell many more RTR cars to the collectors, AND the same number of parts to the racers -- all they have to do is make their stuff with appropriate detail. Would you or any other racer stop buying NSR if their detail and accuracy improved? Hell no! They would still be fast, smooth-running cars that no racer could resist. But lots of scale guys don't buy the cars because of scale issues. What people are telling NSR is that they're losing a very large stream of money to the guys (collectors) who are spending $5,000 - $10,000 per year on the hobby -- and there are a lot of them. I'll tell ya...fellas......you're gonna want more cowbell! Rock legend Bruce Dickinson
bwaminispeed		#49	[-]
Posts: 1012 (07/14/08 10:30 AM) BWA Wheels Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	"they're losing a very large stream of money to the guys (collectors)" Not just collectors, also, all the people that prefer to RACE reasonably accurately scaled 1/32 slot cars, And, I believe this market is probably at least as big if not bigger than the I don't care what scale it is, or, how out of proportion it is. I think NSR could easily double or tripple their market if they bult cars REASONBLY acurate, and, REASONABLY to correct 1/32 scale. BWA Slot Cars bwapenrose@hotmail.com *Quote:* BWA Slot Car Products,the Best Wheels Available on the Planet.
Chaparral 2D		#50	[-]
Posts: 1016 (07/14/08 10:47 AM) Home Racing Guru! Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I've corresponded with Salvatore off and on and read some of his SlotForum posts carefully. I know he's out to make money. He's expanded into creating cars instead of just components. You can't live your dreams like he does without some kind of solid business practices. Understand three people assemble an NSR car. Himself, his wife, and I think one of his best friends. He considers himself an "artisan", not a "maufacturer". As a Musician myself, I understand this. He's cut in the mold of Ettore Bugatti, Enzo Ferrari for a lack of a better description. He creates these cars as to what's in his heart, imagination, and his mind. This, I know sounds crazy to some guys, but this is what's in his heart, and what is his passion. When you get one of these cars, it's kind of like getting a 1/32 supercar for lack of a better term. For some folks, not practical nor desireable. I think he's trying to expand and create, and I think make the bodies and such better as he goes. Remember, they're turning out x cars per day, my guess from reading between the line no more then 30-60 a day with a max effort with all three of them building away. I don't think he's worried about making a lot of money, like a lot of artists, he's satisfied that what he does is making a nice little profit to keep him rolliing along comfortably and satisfies his artisitic desires as well as those who want the car. He's also competitive as heck. Evidently there's a real serious competitive rivalry between him and Maurizio that kind of briols out once in awhile. Now, how much of this is the slot-media hype as to how rough and tumble the rivalry is, I don't know. I personally guess that it's more an innate competitive desire from the both of them to create the very best quality and enjoyable proucts and to be number one. Maurizio is an Engineer like my Dad. Very bright, logical, focused. Salvatore strikes me to be more like myself, right- brained, intuitive, passionate, a dreamer. Both types can drive each other crazy without meaning to because they both have trouble understanding each other at times. I hope this kind of explains the gentleman a bit to those of you who wonder. He'll slowly create different cars for the market, and I believe you'll see a gradual evolution in them. And believe me, I understand the collector's market. I'm guessing Foroslot's proposal was interesting to him, and obviously he built the cars. It did take 100 of us to cough up 135 bucks on trust and wait a few months LOL. But, hey look at guys who cough up 6 figures plus for a Real limited production car? But I bought it to race. I love the car. Not to collect it. Oh, and Kurt, there are crazies who run up the voltage out my way, which I want no part of, heavy mag guys at Hobbytown. The local IHSR guys kind of peek in there and avoid that mayhem. They'll run 20-24V... dear lord. That being said, the NINCO Karts run a tad nicer at 15-16V but we're dealing with a very tame HO motor hauling around a lot of weight there. Hope I helped some of you figure out the guy behind NSR. I really like Salvatore a metric ton. He's always been encouraging to me and excited his cars did well in the IHSR this last season. Bob
ElSecundo		#51	[-]
Posts: 6223 (07/14/08 02:19 PM) Home Racing Guru! Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Yes, I met Salvatore in Italy and he seems like a genuinely good guy. Same with Maurizio, but like you said, it's artisan vs. engineer. The rivalry is intense between those two, which I feel is another reason to hold NSR's cars to the same standard as Slot.It. Maurizio is restricted by real world proportions as seen on real world cars. I have tremendous respect for Maurizio and the way he does things, and if he's going to be in head-to-head competition with another Italian car maker, I want to know that Maurizio is getting a fair shake, and we're comparing apples to apples. Scale dimensions are a good way to hold them both to a similar standard. I'm with you -- I think Salvatore and his business will evolve. I think his Fred Mk IV is a step in the right direction, so while I get on NSR for being off in the scale aspect, he's clearly moving towards bringing us scale (or close enough to scale) models. I appreciate his hard work, and I think I'd be stupid not to get one of these cars. I just can't bring myself to get several of these cars, which I'd readily do if the car looked right. For an 'artisan' car, I'm more inclined to go with Racer, but the NSR's are great cars in their own right. I'll tell ya...fellas......you're gonna want more cowbell! Rock legend Bruce Dickinson
Da Vols		#52	[-]
Posts: 4695 (07/15/08 07:06 AM) HRW Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Would I opt for the NINCO version? In a heartbeat. That's exactly what I did. I don't want NSR or any other manufacturer to assume that I care more about speed than scale accuracy, and I think buying the NSR version would send that wrong message. I hope y'all missed my point as I'm talking about "competitive" racing and not personal choice. There's another review on Slot Forum and it prefaces the "intent" of this car solely being made as such for the rules in which it competes. The biggest "offense" as to scale is it's width and if you take a look underneath the body you can see the "why" for this - NSR does not make "hubless" wheels which along with their motor pod design dictates the body width rightly or wrongly so. To say that a scale accurate version would sell better is a big "duh"...one would think the NSR folks would kind of know that...so it seems to me this car (and their others) are being made the way they intended. Da Vols - Bruce & Harriet & Kali
ElSecundo		#53	[-]
Posts: 6224 (07/16/08 08:46 AM) Home Racing Guru! Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Da Vols wrote: Would I opt for the NINCO version? In a heartbeat. That's exactly what I did. I don't want NSR or any other manufacturer to assume that I care more about speed than scale accuracy, and I think buying the NSR version would send that wrong message. I hope y'all missed my point as I'm talking about "competitive" racing and not personal choice. There's another review on Slot Forum and it prefaces the "intent" of this car solely being made as such for the rules in which it competes. The biggest "offense" as to scale is it's width and if you take a look underneath the body you can see the "why" for this - NSR does not make "hubless" wheels which along with their motor pod design dictates the body width rightly or wrongly so. To say that a scale accurate version would sell better is a big "duh"...one would think the NSR folks would kind of know that...so it seems to me this car (and their others) are being made the way they intended. Sure, I'm talking about competitive racing, too. I'm not going to race with a car that plays be a different set of rules just to get a competitive advantage. It's different if we're talking about a NSR-only race -- of course I'd use it then. A car with dimensions based on race class rules would be called a 'thingie' in anyone's book. Loosely based on a real car, sure -- but still a thingie. The height is off by something like 20% (you'd have to ask the real scale guys about the exact figure). And if the car is being made 'as intended', well, that's exactly what offends the scale guys. Intentionally distorting the scale for the purpose of speed? Cardinal sin to a scale guy. If there are performance drawbacks to a certain car's body shape, every manufacturer lives with those drawbacks. I bet NSR would still make the fastest, most balanced, and best performing version of the car out there. Why screw up the scale? I'll tell ya...fellas......you're gonna want more cowbell! Rock legend Bruce Dickinson
Da Vols		#54	[-]
Posts: 4701 (07/16/08 11:42 AM) HRW Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Kurt - Here are the measurements of real vs NSR: Measurements of actual car in mm: Height: 1000 = 31.2 - 30 Width: 1710 = 53.4 - 60 Length: 4430 = 138.4 - 137 Wheelbase: 2410 mm = 75.3 - 75.1 The height is off by something like 20% Must be that "new math" if 1.2mm equals that percentage??? Anywhat, the width is what is significantly off...roughly 12% more than what it should be...with all other dimensions in a very acceptable range. So, if you and other like-minded folks believe this 1/4" difference (actually just an 1/8" each side) makes this car a "thingie", well so be it. And as I mentioned, either a redesign of the motor pod/chassis and/or hubless wheels would have to be manufactured for the width to become "acceptable"...and I have no idea if NSR has the financial wealth or concern to do so. Da Vols - Bruce & Harriet & Kali
ddyke		#55	[-]
Posts: 3401 (07/16/08 01:22 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	The worst is the width which probably exaggerates the height to the eye. I am offended (anal retentive and hysterical to some) by the VMG at 20% too large but this is almost acceptable, but then it is my choice what I buy with my money (what there is of that). Dan Scrappy Dan panem et circenses = the next election's motto
Quickcars	Mk IV	#56	[-]
Posts: 2189 (07/16/08 01:24 PM) Home Racing Guru! Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	My question, where can I get one? QC
blueaxe	New Review...NSR Ford MK IV	#57	[-]
Posts: 1035 (07/16/08 01:39 PM) Home Racing Guru! Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	ElSecundo wrote: NSR competes with Slot.It in Italy, and NSR can't claim to be better than Slot.It if it's playing by 'thingie rules', where Slot.It is playing by 'scale model' rules. I have to agree with Mr. El, for the money these guys have got to step up a bit more. I have a friend who travels to Italy several times a year and says NSR has a big following in the land of pasta & gravy. I think that if they want to break *this* market though, they got some-a work to do. ..........Blueaxe Oh yeah Harry, BTW Another cool review........ You only let off the gas to keep the wheels from spinning... Timing is Everything Last Edited By: blueaxe 07/16/08 02:07 PM. Edited 1 times.
John Schoen		#58	[-]
Posts: 25 (07/16/08 02:24 PM) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Slot.it make their classics following the same set of rules as NSR, as a consequence of that their 312PB and the Alfa 33/3 are also too wide. They are just more detailed and photogenic than the NSR. Just wait until you see one of the NSR Fords for real, it doesn't look overly wide then. The easiest way to make them in the correct width would be an inline chassis. It is very difficult to make a sidewinder much narrower than 59 mm with the current Slot.it and NSR motor pods. I like sidewinders better and don't mind the extra width, the cars still look right to me.
lolat260		#59	[-]
Posts: 560 (07/16/08 03:26 PM) Home Racing Guru! Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I too would like to know where folks are getting these? Cause I want to buy one BAD!
ElSecundo		#60	[-]
Posts: 6227 (07/17/08 09:38 AM) Home Racing Guru! Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Bruce, like I said, you have to talk to the guys who do the measuring. It may be that the greenhouse on the car is 20% too small, and when you look at it, that's a distinct possibility. But we do know that proportion is everything, not just dimensions. You can provide these measurements all day: "Measurements of actual car in mm: Height: 1000 = 31.2 - 30 Width: 1710 = 53.4 - 60 Length: 4430 = 138.4 - 137 Wheelbase: 2410 mm = 75.3 - 75.1 " But I can also show you a brick with wheels that has the exact same dimensions. The devil is clearly in the details. NSR could provide a very fast and fun to drive Mk IV, and there is plenty of documentation to do it accurately. If everybody built cars with the same philosophy, we'd all be crying "Sure, they're fast -- but why can't anybody build a car that looks right?" Most of us buy the cars because they look so darn good. Start giving free passes for good performance, and you know exactly where it leads. Some of you went through it in the 60's, and are going the same direction again. I'll tell ya...fellas......you're gonna want more cowbell! Rock legend Bruce Dickinson

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